Secrets From Inside The Pizzeria: Reader's Write

Readers Write

Thank you for your letters and questions/comments. I am sharing some of the letters and responses for all to enjoy. We all continue to learn. Letters may be edited.

Newest first :

Beverly & Beth - just last weekend I was able to do my first try at making real home made pizza & the pizzas actually turned out pretty great! I already had a stone which I've been using for a lot of baking, probably about 10-15 years old & well seasoned. And...I work for General Mills & know several of our R&D guys who specialize in the flour area, so I was able to get a 25# bag each of Balancer (Pillsbury XXXX) & Bouncer (Gold Medal) high protein flour from the "A" mill located in downtown Minneapolis. This flour is only sold to the Food Service type customers, but they said they have quite a few customers who show up at the "A" mill and they sell them the bags from the mill. The flour really made the difference!!!! I made a SMOG (sausage, mushroom, onion & green pepper) which was great! I tried a new recipe that was vegetarian, used olive oil/garlic for the 'sauce' sautéed onion & fennel, threw on some hot pepper flakes & topped it with fontina cheese. WOW, and YUM!. Just one note, fontina cheese doesn't brown, so I kept on watching it.

THANKS again for all your great suggestions and your booklet & DVD was the best! The people we had over want to know when the next pizza night is...and I said they have to learn the secrets and have pizza night at their place, too! Mary

Hi Mary! Thanks for the great letter. We’re thrilled that you’ve really put the information to good use. You taught me some things too. I didn’t know anyone could go directly to the mill there and buy a bag of flour!! Also, loved the SMOG acronym. Your unique pizza sounded delicious. Beverly

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Bev - The pizza I made was nothing short of fanatastic. I used your dough recipe for a thin crust pizza and cooked it on a pizza screen and a pizza stone on the grill. I let the dough rise for five days before cooking. The first pizza we made was a little over done on the bottom because the grill was set too high. The second pizza was perfect. I used a basic spaghetti sauce which is very similar to your pizza sauce. I also sprinkled a lot of oregano on the cheese. The pizza came out tasting like the wood oven pizzas we have had in Italy. Your dough recipe was excellent. Robert

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Hi Bev, Thanks for the information on how to test the yeast to make sure it is alive. This time I used the teaspoon of yeast with the warm water between 105-110. The yeast bubbled in just a minute or two, so that told me it was fine. I didn't know you were supposed to use sugar also in the tyeast to test if the yeast was good or bad. Thanks. Kay

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Hi Beverly,

Your instructional methods have been very helpful to me. I have been trying to perfect my own pizza for years with increasing success but there was always that "something" that was missing. Your book/video finally answered those questions. Now I'm using the right kind of flour and my sauce is more robust. I am more proud of my pizza than I have ever been. Thank you.

In the spirit of sharing, I would like to pass on one of my secrets that I think makes a significant difference for a pizza baked in a regular home oven. Even with the use of a baking stone, I found that by the time my crusts were baked the cheese and toppings were charred. Therefore, I started using an aluminum wok cover for the full baking time of my pizza and it comes out perfect. Apparently, by using the wok cover, the pizza bakes entirely by conductive heat from the baking stone (from the bottom up) and is protected from the additional radiative and convective heat from the top and sides of the oven.

I hope you find this useful. May the Force be with you, Tony

Tony – what an interesting idea. I’m wondering, though, why your top is baking so much faster than the bottom. That can be caused by a bottom element not functioning properly, so you might want to check that out. (I’m presuming your oven has a bottom element and you are setting the pizza stone in the lowest position possible.) Bev

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Thanks Bev,

I had great success the first time with bread flour only. The sauce ideas worked great. I don't like the red pepper. I added my own secret ingredient (red wine, 1 tablespoon per cup of sauce).

Prior to your tape, I could never quite duplicate the great pizzas that you can get at a good pizzaria. I am working on cheese combos, and refining my sauce ideas. I am not there yet, but I am very encouraged.
I love not measuring the flour! It came out perfect the first time.
Best always, John

Hello John,

Wonderful!!!!! I like your secret sauce ingredient too!You've taken the information and run with it. Bev

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Hi Bev:
I purchased your dvd some time ago, but never wrote to tell you how my first pizzas turned out. They have been wonderful. I agree with someone who wrote in that it's ruined their life because they can never buy a pizza or take their children/grandchildren to a pizzaria. Although maybe he should just so they know how good they have it by having the best pizza right at home!

My question is about cheese. I really prefer a cheese that is a little salty, stays a little chewy rather than melting as smooth as a grilled cheese sandwich or Velveeta, and browns nicely. I purchase a provolone at Sam's Club that I liked very much, but they no longer carry it. Any suggestions on a cheese that might meet the above criteria?

Also, slightly different pizza that we copied from a local pizzaria was a Philly Cheesesteak pizza. My husband ordered it. I thought it sounded awful and ended up liking it very much. So we copied it. After shaping the crust, I brushed the crust with Mayonnaise and then topped it with thin sliced roast beef, a sprinkle of a seasoned salt and pepper, cheese (the provolone was great here), onions, green pepper and mushrooms. It was very good. My favorite, however, is still pepperoni with a really good cheese.

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide regarding cheese.
Bobbi

Hi Bobbi,

Your cheese question is a tough one and here's why: the older cheese gets, the more it melts (disintegrates). Every cheese when young will have less melt. I know how frustrating this is because I've been through the same thing. Our Sam's switched out the perfect Mid-America brand cheese for something else not nearly as good. Some stores don't store cheese at a really cold temperature so it can age in a warm case - or a too warm warehouse. So back to step 1: check out the cheeses available and see which does best. I can see why you liked the provolone, as it tends to be a little saltier than mozz. The brick, while tasty and on the salty side usually, will tend to have the most melt of all. So good luck on finding another Provolone - and don't forget to complain to Sam's Club ...

I saw that pizza advertised and thought it sounded awful too! It makes more sense now to see it isn’t a traditionally made pizza.

Wish I could have been more help … Bev

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Hi Bev,
I had a couple of questions. When you take the dough out of refrig, how long must it sit before you can start forming the pizza? Also, I have a convection oven. Should I cook with convection at 500 degrees or just cook on bake? Dave

Hello Dave,

The dough should sit until it is doubled in size. If it doubled in the refrigerator, you can use it right away. But it is easier to work with (especially if it's on the stiff side) if it warms up 15 minutes or more. I find baking on convection leaves the dough too wet inside, so recommend using bake - but do try it out for yourself as I've heard from a few readers who are happy with their convection baking results. Bev

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Bev, This weekend I am making my first pizza at home. As a guide, I used Deb's (your assistant's) secret sauce to see if I liked it. Plus it was fairly much the minimum listed in the trial and error process. It seems that the black pepper is too overwhelming at the moment with 1/2 tsp per cup of sauce. But I am holding out for the flavors to mingle to make the final decision.

But anyways, if I have too much black pepper in the sauce, I am not worrying over it. If you find that you added too much of one ingredient in your test sauce, and your 2nd test sauce is what you liked, it is possible to save your 1st bad test sauce. You can add another cup or 2 of the plain sauce to the test sauce that was not quite to your liking. Double or triple all the other spices from the good sauce and add any difference needed to make that bad sauce to be your secret sauce.

I hope this helps others obtaining that great sauce from a flop without having to throw it away. Eric

Eric – you are coming up with the right answers. First, wait a little longer – pepper flavor tends to disappear into the sauce the longer it waits. Even if you think it is too hot, try a little on a portion of the pizza – like mark it off with green peppers or something – because too peppery sauce is often just right once it mingles with the rest of the pizza. That's a good tip for saving a too peppery or spicy sauce by adding some more of the plain sauce to the too hot test sauce until the flavor is where you want it, then correct with a little additional spice. Bev

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I am enjoying a new hobby, pizza. Still perfecting making the dough in my bread machine but haven't thrown any out yet. I'm making a 12" for the two of us and last time prebaked the 2nd crust to use later. That's great to have one in freezer for a easy supper. I'm using Bob's Red Mill flour which says its US#1 dark northern hard red spring wheat, but is probably not exactly the same, but have had good results. I'm not yet ready to buy the huge sack from Sam's Club. The last sauce I made I added a little anchovy paste and we loved it. A favorite pizza restaurant in the Florida Keys serves a pizza with anchovies (little furry fish) and my husband and I love them. If I hide it in the sauce everyone else likes it too. A. Phillips

From Bev: That's a great idea to use the anchovy paste!

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Bev - The best basic sauce I have found is soooooooo simple you wouldn't believe it. After buying dozens of bottles of sauce and trying out recipes from the web, I came up with this one in a flash of brilliance. Use Balsamic Vinegar, Tomato sauce or puree, salt and pepper to taste. I have not included measurements because I do not know what size pizza you would be putting it on. Basically just flavor to taste. Charlie

Thanks for this, Charlie. I have had a few other readers who swear by adding Balsamic Vinegar to their sauce. Bev

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Hi Bev.
I just FINALLY got to bake the first pizza on Saturday night. I ended up making the dough last Sunday and it was in the refrigerator until Saturday. Let me tell you.....

My husband said AT LEAST four times that this was the best pizza I have ever made. He even said "that was as good as anything you could get anywhere!" It was so good, in fact, that he ate 3/4 of it singlehandedly! And he's not that big an eater!! I had two slices which I agree were amazing - and my son had two, but my husband ate the whole rest of the pizza! It was just great!!!! I went ahead and made the second dough ball that I had into a pizza and we munched it yesterday for leftovers.

I did have a couple of questions I wanted to ask you.

1) I made the first doughball in my KitchenAid and the second one in my breadmaker. I much prefer the breadmaker because of the convenience. I work so much - and have so little time to clean up, so it was just a breeze. They both turned out great. I did wonder, though, how long I should let it knead in the breadmaker. I didn't see that referenced anywhere in the book or DVD - but maybe I missed it. I don't want to overknead, so I tried about 10 minutes I think once it was mixed. Do you have a better suggestion?

2) I was a little bit confused about taking the dough from the refrigerator. It was cold and I actually took it from the bowl and formed it into a ball before starting to form it into the pizza shell. That was my mistake. It was still cold and was way too elastic to stretch out. I searched through the book to find something somewhere that said I should let it sit for 30 minutes before working with it. I let it sit for a while and eventualy, I was able to work it out. The second ball I actually took from the fridge and placed on the floor by the wood stove. (Had to remind the fuzzy family members that this was NOT a snack for them.) It warmed up beautifully in about an hour and then stretched out just as yours did on the DVD. My question is - when you take the dough from the fridge, should you just leave it flattened out - and not shape it at all? Since that seemed to work on dough ball #2, I'm guessing the answer is yes. But any guidance you can give me on that would be great.

3) I cooked the pizzas on the screen sitting on the stone on the bottom shelf at 500 degrees. The only problem I had is that the top got way too brown before the bottom felt done. Is there a way to put a cookie sheet on a higher rack just to deflect some of the top heat? Or would that not work since the oven is pre-heated at such a high temperature. I thought I might try adding more sugar as you suggest to get more browning - and then just not leave it in there so long.

4) The crusts were perfect for my husband and son, but I like it a little bit more crispy. I think I will try using my peel and taking it off the screen after a few minutes and sticking it on the stone directly to give it some extra crispiness. I also ended up taking the stone out of the oven and placing the pizza on it while serving. That seemed to help to crisp it up even after it came out of the oven.

I love to cook and it is just wonderful to have something turn out so amazing! I used the 10% white cheddar to mozzarella cheese combo, made my own sauce using your techniques and topped with olives, broccoli and black beans. (We're vegetarians.) I just can't wait to have friends over to try it, too. Trish

Hello Trish,

You’ll enjoy the coincidence that just happened. My first letter today was from a couple who just became vegetarians. Then your letter was next. I quick sent them your topping suggestion.

I laughed picturing you in Costco’s pizza kitchen reading a pizza book!

Did you have a chance yet to read about reheating leftovers in a skillet over low heat? They come out so good that way.

To answer your questions:

1) There is nothing in the book about breadmaker kneading time. You should be fine by letting it complete the kneading cycle time in any of the machines. The only other suggestion I would have is if you have a food processor also try making it up in that.

2) Good guess! As long as the dough has risen to double it’s original volume, you can work it cold or warm, but it is easier warm. You can use this to your advantage the times you are a little off on the consistency. If the dough is really stiff when you made it up, let it warm a bit when you make up the pizza; if it had seemed a little sloppy, work it cold. And … if it is ever just plain difficult … like maybe you wanted pizza and it hadn’t risen to double yet, stretch as far as it is willing, cover and let it set a few minutes to relax, then stretch some more.

3) Putting a cookie sheet on a rack above may do the trick to slow down the top heat. With most stones (the tan ones for sure), you’ll need to bake the last 30 seconds or longer directly on the stone to get a nice crisp, brown bottom. Some who like the crisp crust do not use a screen at all, but bake directly on the stone. Also, try heating longer next time before you put the pizza in and see if this helps. But, my big concern is whether you are getting sufficient heat out of your bottom element. My daughter is a military wife and in every place they’ve lived they either had to replace or repair the stove so it would bake pizza. (I’ll never forget one oven that wasn’t working right. I thought I’d start with cleaning it – I ignored the safety warning about unplugging the stove when cleaning the oven, and I felt a tingle when I wiped down one of the sides with a wet dish cloth. Fortunately for ME, I hadn’t yet wiped around the area the coil came out as it was spilling out 220 volts.) If you have a gas oven, try setting the stone directly on the bottom.

It is a joy to talk to someone who loves to cook! Thank you so much for writing. Bev

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Hi Bev: Tried your recipe for New York pizza dough.The first attempt didn't turn out too good. The crust came out so hard, was hard to chew. So to figure out what went wrong took a lot of thought. Here is what happened: too much chlorine in the water killed the yeast. Dough didn't rise after four days. So next batch of dough I used bottled water; dough doubled in two days, baked up nice and brown, lite airy and a little crisp. Just perfect. Best I ever had. Couldn't have done it without you and your awesome dvd. Thanks very much. John

John - good for you! I am thrilled you were able to figure outwht went wrong! I recall one commmissary where the water had more chlorine than the average swimming pool - with the same results as you had. Bev

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Dear Bev and Beth: I have been making pizza at home for 30 years and I was thrilled to learn the "secret." While my pizzas were good, they were never real New York style - and I'm from Brooklyn! You answered every single question I ever had - amazing. The fact that you can't freeze was a good one. I think all recipes should have those types of instructions - how long it will hold in the refrigerator, can you freeze it, how many days in advance you can prepare.

I am a manufacturer of pasta and pizza sauces. And let me tell you, I have "opinions" on what to do and what not to do about a good sauce. I completely agree with you on the oregano. If you buy a prepared sauce with oregano, after it sits in the jar it just becomes overwhelming. I also agree on the garlic powder - the less the better. My prepared pizza sauce is simple, and high-quality. San Marzano tomaotes (imported from Italy), extra virgin olive oil, etc. My preference is not to have a thick sauce. I like it to "slide" a little when it comes out of the oven - otherwise, for me, it's just tomatoe mud.

If you have a Wild Oats around you, we are selling our sauces there, and you can pick up a jar of pizza sauce in a 14 oz. jar. Our brand name is "Frankie's Gravy."

As a sister pizza lover, I'd love you to try our sauce. You can also order it online at our web site www.frankiesgravy.com.

My daughter and her boyfriend are now in possession of this video since they just got a new pizza stone and were completely in the dark how to treat it. Your cleaning suggestions were perfect. Why in the world don't they tell you these things. That too was very good information. The screen was also very good information. In fact the whole video was comletely spectacular. I definitely as a pleased customer.

I am even fussy about where I get my pizza in New York so you know I'm a pizza "nut." At any rate, I did want to take this opportunity to let you have my thoughts -- which became longer than I anticipated. But I know when I get a satisfied customer report on my web -- well, it makes me happy.

So good luck. I think you have a great product here and I wish you the best. Susan

Thank you for the many compliments, Susan! I found the distributor for your product is about half an hour away and was able to pick up a case of mixed sauces and am enjoying them all! I think readers would enjoy trying out your New York style pizza sauce. It's quite different from mine. Thanks for letting us all know about your delicious sauces. Bev

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Hi Bev - My dough is very spongy and springy like a rubber band, but not quite that bad. I don't think it has doubled. I leave it in the refrigerator for 4 or 5 days. It just reaches a point that it isn't growing anymore. Should I leave it out to get to room temperature after I take it our of the refrig? before I shape it? I have trouble understanding about the dough relaxing. I am using a bread machine to make the dough. Larry

Hi Larry -

Underproofed dough can be very difficult to stretch out because the gluten strands haven't been thinned out by the stretching that takes place during proofing (rising).

Yes, leave it out at room temp until it doubles in size. If you feel it is taking too long to proof, add more yeast next time.

Most dough machines can't handle a dough this stiff, so you may need to work in some extra flour. Be sure your temperature is not going over 75 degrees in your finished dough.

Figuring out the right consistency is the really hard part and I've struggled with how to convey this because it is a visual. Try this: Tighten your fist and bicep muscles. Now without opening your fist, just relax. Notice how your bicep untenses. This is how the dough should do. It doesn't sag while you watch it for 30 seconds to a minute. It just untenses. Does that help any? Another tip is that when you let the dough rise on a flat surface (where it can spread out as it rises), it will rise about 50% up and 50% out. Bev

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Hi Beverly,

I have made two "First Pizzas" since receiving your disk. I had been
buying pre-made pizza dough from my local Publix market so I was anxious to make one from scratch. It took forever to get some Sir Lancelot flour from King Arthur so my first "first pizza" was made with ordinary flour. It was better than the ones I had been making and my best ever. When the high-gluten flour arrived I made my second "First Pizza" batch of dough. I had a hard time waiting for it to proof ...but I did. The pizza was wonderful. My wife was delighted with the crust. I am now looking for a local supplier of high-gluten flour.

There was one problem: I have never been able to make a round pizza. I have made triangles, ovals, and trapezoids (all unintentionally), but I cannot get a really round pie. I will keep trying. Ken

Hello Ken,

Don't worry if you can't make it round. Call it rustic! It reminds me of the time I was trying out a new cake recipe for my sister's birthday. I thought it seemed like a rather thin batter, and when I took it out of the oven, it collapsed in the center. Since the party was 45 minutes away, I quickly made some lemon pie filling for the center, and everyone thought it was wonderful.

The screens really do help you to get a round pizza. You can transfer it directly to the stone once the pizza releases from the screen. Make sure you don't get the dough too thin in the center - and put very little toppings in the center area.

One more thing: If you aren't getting somewhat round dough, it may be because of the consistency of your dough. If it has too little flour, it will stretch too quickly and be misshapen. If it has too much flour you will stretch and stretch trying to get it worked out, and also result in it being misshapen. You can correct for this somewhat by working with a wet dough when it is cold and an overly firm dough by letting it warm up. Bev

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Hi Beverly,
My first pizza came out great. (as well as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th) I have made pizza at home for awhile, but I could never get a thin crust to turn out how I wanted it too (until now!)

I have questions that I am hoping you will answer. I own a small family cafe/bakery and am planning to add pizza to the menu. I have a sheeter and mixer already, but my current oven is not going to work for pizza. What do think about adding stones to the shelves of a convection oven? I could use a convection oven for multiple things, so it would make more sense for me to buy. I think a deck oven would give me the best pizza, but it also takes the most skill to use, and it isn't nearly as versatile. Would you change the dough recipe at all to use in a convection oven? Also, if you could send me a dough recipe in ounces and pounds that would make about 25 crusts per batch that would be awesome. I have a 30 qt mixer.

Also, as I sell take-out pizzas, is there anything I should keep in mind to maximize the quality of the crust in a cardboard box? I know this is probably overstepping the bounds of what questions you would normally answer, but any help you are willing to give is much appreciated. I've wanted to add pizza for years, but I didn't want to do it until I was able to make great pizza. I've even subscribed to Pizza Today to try to learn as much as I can. Kathy

Hi Kathy,

I am so glad to hear the pizzas are coming out great!

Some commercial pizzerias use convection, and the company I worked for did too back in my time. I worked with the Middleby-Marshall rep in Germany for a couple weeks one time trying to get a good pizza out of the ovens we had there. We finally succeeded, but made a lot of alterations to the oven – the basic scheme was that convection was turned off for the first part of the bake. The thing that was happening was that the high heat and air was hitting the crust and sealing the moisture in. It looked pretty coming out the other end but was wet inside. I know there have been advances in oven design since then, so I’d check out what's new. We have a convection option on our home oven, but I don’t use it for pizza. Most readers with convection ovens have written they were not satisfied with the results. So my caution is to test carefully before you buy, and considering delivery, see what the customer would receive in your worst case scenario. A delivered pizza is going to steam a bit, so a dry dough is better than having a wet dough.

There is an old-time pizza fellow who has a free book online you might find helpful. The link is: http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/_home_encyclopizza.htm. It has a wealth of information, though not up to date on equipment. Bev

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Hi Bev,
Just finished making pizzas on a stone in a convection oven (I run a dining hall at Michigan Tech University, as well as my restaurant). Tested the pizzas on college students, they LOVE them. I preheated the stone to 500; when I put the pizza in I turned it down to 450 and shut the fan off. Let it bake for 5 minutes, then cranked the heat back up and put the fan on for the last minute or 2. Perfection. I'm so excited! I have all of my pizza equipment ordered for the restaurant, hoping to launch by the first of the year. Thanks
for all of your help
Kathy

Hi Bev -
just a quick update - last week we sold 142 pizzas, which considering it is just one part of our menu, and our town only has 2000 people - I'm thrilled. Everywhere I go people are telling me it's the best pizza they have had in years! Thanks again for all your help
Kathy

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Hi Bev: I have some thoughts regarding cheeses and costs. I welcome your feedback of course.

I like the cheese blend idea as you mentioned on the video (mozzarella, asiago, provolone and jack or muenster). I went shopping yesterday comparing prices and here's what I come up with. I also looked for Romano cheese, since I plan on making my own Alfredo sauce.

At Sam's Club (cheapest by far), they sell Mozzarella in either a 5lb block or pre-shredded bag for the same price, $11.88. That comes out to about $2.38/lb.
For Asiago, their price was $4.79/lb and I think they had 2 or 3 lb blocks of it. For Romano, it was $5.87/lb and they had 2 or 3 lb blocks of that as well. I didn't see any Provolone. Can't imagine they don't have that and Jack. Anyway, just for Moz. & Asiago, the combined price per pound is $7.16, unless I am not calculating correctly.

My local Kroger store sells a couple of very good cheese blends. One is a 4-cheese blend with Moz., Smoked Prov., Romano & Parmesan. They call it a "Pizza Cheese" package (8 oz). The other is an "Italian Cheese" package (also 8 oz.) with all 4 of those in the "Pizza cheese" package, PLUS Asiago & Fontina. Both sell for only $1.79 for an 8-oz package. That's $3.60/lb. And that's their regular price. Sometimes they are on sale and the price is even cheaper. Less than half the cost of buying each one separately and making my own blend! That seems to me to be the better deal, and they're already blended for you! I have tried both Kroger blends, and was very pleased. Very good flavor. I plan to ask the manager if they sell it in bulk, or if he can get me a 'special' price if I bought a full box of the 8-oz packages. That way I can store them in my freezer. I have become so good at making pizza that we have them every week at my house. I had started before buying your video & book, but with your dough recipe, that is the clincher! So stocking up on cheese is a good thing.

Hello John:

That was good detective work on the cheese cost. I was shopping for cheese at a Kroger’s in May and noticed the same thing you did – mixed cheese on sale at a very good price. Mine baked up well too. That isn’t always the case when you buy grated cheese – especially on sale – because it may have been out of specification cheese that couldn’t be sold in the block or it may have been nearing expiration.

You have a good idea to buy and freeze. Just thaw slowly in the refrigerator for a full 24 hours so the cheese equilibrates during thawing.

A few others have written me of the same experience you had with the thin pizza. Usually the culprit is that it is too thin in the center and tears.

If you leave a little more dough there to begin with and only the merest amount of sauce and cheese in the center, you will most likely pull it off...or out! You might be surprised to know a master Italian pizza maker can stretch the dough so thin you can see through it. Bev

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Bev - I want to experiment with diastatic malt in my dough. Do you know a source? Mitch

Hi Mitch - Now that I live in the hinterlands, it is not so easy to get (commercially it is made from barley) and I don't want to pay the shipping cost, so I make my own by sprouting wheat berries. I use a pint jar and soak the seeds for a half day to a day, drain and rinse, then put a couple layers of damp cheesecloth or thin cloth over the top secured with a rubber band. Put in a dark, warm place (I've set mine on top the water heater, but be sure it is not too hot, about 100 degrees). Rinse with tepid water and drain twice a day until the seeds sprout to 1/4 inch. This will take about 3 days. Dry at no more than 110 degrees F. so you don't destroy the enzymes. Grind up in a blender or grain mill, being carefull to not get them hot. Try 1/2 teaspoon malt in a doughball in place of sugar. If it rises too fast, use less next time.

The enzymes break down some of the complex carbohydrates to simple sugars for the yeast to feed on. Diastatic malt gives a nice bready flavor, not sweet. In pizza I prefer the sweeter taste of sugar, but I do like the malt flavor in breads, especially French bread. In Europe some of the wheat is sprouted before it is ground, so the malt is naturally occurring, and gives the bread that distinctive flavor that most people think can't be duplicated other places. Bev

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Dear Bev: I would like my cheese to be slightly on the brown side. I'm baking my pie on the lower rack at 500°F. I've tried whole and park skim mozzarella, and mozzarella/Provolone mix. The crust turns out great but the cheese always comes out milky white. I've used Sorrento, Poly-O and Grande mozzarella. Wiseguy

Dear Wiseguy: You like your cheese just like I like mine! Sorrento is one of my favorites too. No browning is a problem of one or both: 1) too much moisture in the cheese 2) too much age on the cheese. If the cheese is held too warm, that can make it age faster. The reason I point this out is that I've noticed the same cheese brand can vary from store to store, which may indicate the turnover time or the temperature of the holding case/warehousing. So one suggestion is to try cheese from a different store if you haven't already. The second suggestion is to try moving the rack up higher to see if you can effect more browning that way - the heat is hotter higher in the oven; you will have to place the pizza directly on the stone for the last portion of baking to get enough browning on the bottom. And one final idea if these don't work: Briefly place the pizza under the broiler - the problem with that is if the cheese is really aged, it may not hold up to that direct heat. If you are grating your own cheese, use the coarse side - or better yet - if you have a food processor, cut the cheese into 1 - 1½ inch cubes and process to average 1/4 inch chunks which will melt down slower. Bev

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Hello Bev: You might be interested in knowing I found two errors in your manual. 1) You talk about Black Pepper sensation in the back of the mouth. 2) Under Secret Sauce the spices shown should be for a 28 oz. can of tomatoes + a 6 oz. can of paste, not one cup of sauce. Bob

Dear Bob: As many times as I have read this I did not catch my error on the Black Pepper. Black Pepper is felt at the front of the mouth. I corrected this in the manual now. Also, you may notice if you use a fine grind of pepper, the flavor will release quickly, while coarse pepper may take a day or two for the flavor to come out. As for the Secret Sauce, it is correct that the spices are for 1 cup of the prepared sauce and not for the 34 ounces. I have reworded that section to make it clearer. Bev

Hello again: I had two problems. I did not get any oven spring at the edge (it was not manhandled). Also the top crust was not a light brown but almost white. The bottom crust was a perfect brown. The dough did not double in size after 57 hours, maybe 50%. The temperature out of the Cuisinart was 80°F. It was baked on parchment paper on a stone at 450°F. until the cheese started to brown. Bob

Dear Bob: Let's see what we can assess for possible causes -

The dough did not double in size after 57 hours.
Did you use the dough before it doubled in size or when it was 50% risen? If it is not risen to double, this could cause it to not brown as well because the yeast turn carbohydrates to sugar, which promotes browning, and they haven't had sufficient time to work. Solution: 1) Remove the dough from the refrigerator and let it rise to double before using. 2) Increase the yeast in your next batch so it will proof faster in the refrigerator.
No oven spring at edge.
Now this sounds like a different kind of problem, because Under proofed dough tends to get big bubbles when it bakes. So let's look at the 80°F. temperature out of the Cuisinart. This one is a biggie. An 80°F. dough is too hot - that will denature the gluten and cause a flatter dough, including a flat edge. Get around this by dissolving the yeast in a small portion of warm water, then using cold water for the remainder. You can even chill the flour if need be to keep the dough temperature down. Food Processors put a lot of heat into the dough. Aim to keep your finished dough temperature under 75°F. The time to stop your processor is as soon as the dough forms a homogenous ball on top the blades.
The crust was brown on the bottom but not the top.
You are getting browning then, just not evenly. That will especially be the case when you are using parchment paper - very good heat transfer from the stone. Try raising the rack one or two positions to get more of the top oven heat. If you see that the top is still not browning enough, move the pizza to a higher shelf the last couple of minutes either by placing it on the bare rack or on a baking sheet. Once you are getting even browning - then evaluate again - is it still too little browning? If so, increase the sugar 25-50%. Bev

Hello again: I made another pizza dough today. I skipped the fermentation, used ice water, and proceeded to end up with 80°F. dough again. I think I have identified the reason for the heated dough problem. My food processor is a new version with a “dough feature.” The cook book that came with the unit states that it should be run for only 45 seconds for pizza dough. That is half the time you suggest. An extra 45 seconds of friction is bound to increase the heat factor. Bob

Hi Bob: Good detective work. Tell me more about your new processor so I can pass that information on. Bev

Hi Bev: It is Cuisinart Model DLC-2014N, 14-cup. Bob

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Hey Bev! I went out to King Arthur's web site yesterday looking for the flour you recommended and it doesn't appear to be there! I even used the item # search and it says that it's not in their inventory at this time. Cathy

Hi Cathy: I’ve noticed too that the flour can be difficult to find sometimes, even when I’ve entered “Sir Lancelot” into the search box. You may have to resort to placing your order on their toll free number: 800.827.6836 (24 hours a day, 7 days a week). Bev

Hi Bev: Thanks. Must be a glitch in their system. I am chasing a flavor from a pizza that I grew up eating back in the late 50's, early 60's in Pennsylvania at Tommy's in Exeter. There was some ingredient that I haven't been able to figure out, but it was also in the pizza flavored Bugles snacks of the late 60's. Cathy

From Bev: I remember Bugles but not pizza flavored ones. I'm wondering if a pizza seasoning might work - in combination with something else. Like Penzey's www.penzey.com Pizza Seasoning #23236 or Brady Street Cheese Sprinkle #20730, or Sandwich Sprinkle #27539 used for homemade croutons.

Well Bev: I'm on the right track! I made pizza last night and it was VERY GOOD! I like the bread flour crust combined with the rice flour on the board. It was crisp and chewy…just perfect! I cooked the first one on parchment at 550°F. with the crust covering the parchment so it didn't burn. The second one, I discovered that the rice flour was enough to keep the crust from sticking to the peel. I'm VERY close to Tommy's..for the cheese, I used smoked Provolone and mozzarella. Next time, I will use just mozz because I remember the cheese as being secondary to the sauce. The Provolone is probably a little too strong. I also need to cut back on the pepper and add more salt (perhaps via anchovies?) and fennel. I couldn't taste the fennel, and I think that might be the secret ingredient. Even so, it was very good and I am quite happy! But I'm always happy in the kitchen. Cathy

Hi Cathy: It sounds like the answer may have been simpler than it looked at first. Bev

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Hi Beverly: I made 6 pizzas yesterday. My wife thought I was crazy ‘till she tasted one of them. They are wonderful!!! Beats paying our local pizza shop $14 for a large pizza. You saved me a fortune. I got my flour from Quality Food Service, 902 Broadway, Elmira NY. The flour he has is ADM Gigantic. It cost me $11.95 for a 50 lb. bag.

I haven't found any pizza screens in my area yet so I'm using one of these splatter screens that go over your frying pan. It is 14 inches round and has a nice handle for lifting out of the oven. There is a plastic insert on the handle but that just pops right out.

My stone is from Pampered Chef. My wife and I sold it for a few years and we have a bunch of them.

I cheated on the sauce. I went to Sam's Club and asked where they got their pizza sauce and they told me they don't sell it but can order it for me. It only cost $19 for a case. It comes in 6 big plastic bags that hold 10 lb. sauce each. It will keep in your pantry in the bags for a year. After I open a bag I just freeze the rest ‘till needed.

I love White Pizzas. You make a regular pizza crust and brush it with Olive Oil. Then you add fresh chopped garlic as much as you like. I use 2-3 tablespoons. I love garlic! Then add your cheese. That's it. They are wonderful just like that or you can use some of your pizza sauce on the side for dipping. Gordy

Dear Gordy: Thanks for some great ideas. Bev

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Beverly: You do NOT preheat a Pampered Chef Stone. It will cause it to crack. Linda

From Bev: Wow! I and many other people (including Pampered Chef dealers) have been preheating Pampered Chef stones for years. I leave mine in the oven all the time - it makes more even oven heat - I've even heard from readers who discovered this on their own and wrote me. I went to the Pampered Chef web site to learn what PC recommends and found this information on their stoneware line:

Stoneware duplicates the effects of brick-lined ovens used in professional bakeries and restaurants by evenly distributing heat, absorbing and circulating moisture. The results are crispier crusts, juicier roasts, and lighter, higher volume breads and cakes. The properties of natural Stoneware allow for heat retention keeping foods warm long after leaving the oven. There's no need to presoak or preheat it.
To season your Stoneware, grease and/or flour your Stoneware according to package or recipe directions for the first several bakings. After these bakings, your Stoneware will begin to season and greasing may not be required.
Avoid dropping or exposure to extreme temperature changes.

I also found a picture of a pizza being cut on the stone with a pizza cutter.

First off, NEVER grease and flour your baking stone - that will just make burned-on residue and flavors you don't want. The stone is made by preheating to 2000 degrees so it certainly can withstand home oven heat. They are correct about dropping and exposure to extreme temperatures - it is better to have the stone in the oven when you begin heating it rather than placing the cold stone in a 550 degree oven. The only time I ever broke a stone was when I lent it to someone who set it upright on the edge and it fell over. Never use your cutter on the stone - it will dull your cutter. Never soak your stone - even for cleaning. Now I do suppose that if you do not follow their instructions and your stone breaks, your guarantee will be void.

I don’t know if different brands of pizza stones are made by different companies – or whether most are made the same place and distributed with different brand names. I can only tell you I’ve seen a number of different brand names that are identical in appearance – and they all work the same. I recently purchased an “Old Stone Oven” pizza stone from A Best Kitchen for a gift, so took a good look at their use and care directions:

Wash stone with water before use (no detergent). Dry well.
Put stone in cold oven in center of middle rack; preheat to 500°F. for 15-20 min. It may be heated longer if you wish – the hotter the stone, the crispier the pizza.
First, liberally sprinkle a pizza paddle with cornmeal (a flat cookie sheet or large piece of cardboard may also be used.). The put the rolled out pizza dough or formed bread dough on the paddle and assemble the pizza.
When stone is hot, sprinkle some cornmeal on it, and then slide the pizza off the paddle and onto the stone with a quick forward motion and a sharp backward jerk.
Bake pizza (or bread) per recipe until done and remove from oven with a paddle and serve. Let stone cool completely before washing.
The hot stone can be used as a server to keep your pizza piping hot. Be sure to use heavy mitts to remove stone and pizza from oven and place on a heat-proof trivet or mat to protect countertop.
Kitchen shears are recommended for cutting pizza when served on the stone. If you choose to cut with a pizza wheel cutter or sharp knife, first transfer pizza to a metal pan or cutting board. Never cut pizza on the stone, as it will mar the surface.
The stone is quite durable, but it may break or chip if dropped. Handle it carefully.
CLEANING THE STONE: It is normal for the stone to accumulate stains from drippings even after washing. This will not alter the taste of your pizza or bread or the stone’s baking performance. However, cooking residue may smoke and create odors. A scouring pad will remove most burned on bits. If accumulation is heavy, then a thorough sanding with a hard abrasive, like emery paper, may be necessary. An electric belt sander works well to clean the stone. Small stains can be cleaned by scrubbing with a toothbrush and a paste made of baking soda and water.
Do not bake cookies, turnovers or other items with a significant fat content directly on the stone. The stone will absorb the fat and cause smoking, odors, and stains.

I agree with almost everything they recommend except: since I have a self-cleaning oven, I find it infinitely easier to run it through the cleaning cycle to remove stains and burned on food; and I don’t care for cornmeal on the stone – if I’m baking several pizzas, the cornmeal will burn…and it’s a mess to clean up. If you do decide to serve the pizza on the hot stone, get a dough scraper to clean off the food residue that will be likely to land on it.

These instructions also reminded me of the many times I have cut pizza with kitchen shears.

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Hi Bev: I enjoyed watching your video and wanted to let you know how my first pizza turned out. I have been a technician all my life working for an Air Conditioning Product Evaluation Laboratory and I am somewhat of a perfectionist who follows instructions very closely. My wife and I enjoyed making the pizza sauce as we followed your step by step instructions. The sauce turned out great and I grated some fresh mozzarella with some Vermont white cheddar and added some Asiago after the pizza came out of the oven. I could not find the particular flour you used but felt I found something that would work. After watching your video I realized the equipment, flour and the technique were the important part of creating a great pizza crust. I went to the health food section at Kroger's and purchased a spring wheat flour high in protein called Bob's Red Mill, Vital Wheat Gluten Flour. Your instructions said to use a high protein (14% or higher) flour from spring wheat.

After mixing up the ingredients I became very suspicious. I let it sit in the refrigerator for almost 4 days before bringing it out to rise because it didn't seem to change much. After letting it sit for a short time, I laid out the dough on some rice flour and pressed the palm of my hand in the center, but it would not stay down. I tried pressing out the dough with no luck and then started trying to stretch it. Boy, this stuff would cut off the circulation at the waist if it were elastic in you pajamas! My wife said it would make a great Tempurpedic mattress. It reminded me of the old Green Acres program with Eddy Albers and Ava Gabor when she made pancakes and Eddy used what was left as a head gasket on his automobile engine!

Anyway, I had placed red quarry tiles in the oven and it had been preheating and I had no dough. I had ordered a pizza peel which came in the day before and it was delivered broken in half. I glued and clamped it. My teenagers were hungry and I drove over to Kroger's to buy some Boboli crust. Needless to say, my first pizza making experience fell very short of my expectations.

When I got back from Kroger's my boys were throwing my two dough balls outside like an 8-inch Frisbee. I hope my neighbors didn't see that. I had told them about learning how to make the best tasting homemade pizza. I am not sure if this stuff is safe to throw away for fear it will not decompose. It might work great blocking the holes in the bottom of my trash can. Anyway, I would assume this flour was not a good selection - or did I screw up the technique? Have you ever used this type of flour (75-80% protein?) Mic

Reply from Bev: Okay, I am busting up laughing at the description of your first pizza. My hat's off to your writing talent! It sounds like everything was going great with the sauce (congratulations! You've accomplished your own secret sauce.), but then came the gigantic rubber band. Your “flour” is actually vital wheat gluten - mostly protein, which can be added to flour to increase it's elasticity. Look for a flour that has 14-16% protein. I am sure you will remember this first pizza long after you have become a pro.

I have now added a warning about mistaking vital wheat gluten flour for high protein flour.

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Bev: I have now made my dough. I'm using zip lock bags to let my dough raise in the fridge. Do I zip them closed? It wasn't clear to me in your DVD. And second, is it OK to stack them to rise or does that inhibit the process? Rose

Hi Rose: Close the zip lock bags. The refrigerator would blow a lot of dry air over the dough and form a hard crust that won't soften up. I have stacked the bags when I've been short on refrigerator space, but that squashes the dough some. I prefer to not stack them as I don't want to squish any of the air out.

I heard from one reader who found stackable, interlocking containers at Wal-Mart, but I was unable to find them at mine. However, from Wal-Mart I did purchase some 6-cup rounded storage containers that I can stack on top of each other and these work well. Bev

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Hello Bev: I've got questions. I'm making a couple batches of dough at one time. After they raise for two days, can I freeze the dough balls for later use? I made a batch from another recipe I got before and froze it, and when I took it out and defrosted it, it fell apart into little pieces, wouldn't stretch either. I had one whole packet of yeast with all purpose flour…what a mess. Or is there a different way to make dough for freezing? Rich

Hello Rich: The answer is: Lean doughs like the New York style crust do not freeze well. Doughs that freeze well usually have a lot of fat and sugar, and maybe milk - like dough for rolls and butter breads. Thick crust pizza dough is a richer dough and will freeze better. An additional problem in trying to freeze lean dough formulas is that the gluten in the flour becomes denatured, so it does not support the toppings; it doesn't rise, and you end up with a limp, thin, wet crust under the toppings.

The other dough you referred to that fell apart - that was probably a cracker crust - very low water to flour ratio - and maybe yours could have used a little more water to hold it together.

The best way to make the pizza dough last is to use very little yeast and let the dough rise very slowly in the refrigerator. I have used doughs 7 days after making by keeping the yeast amount small - like less than ½ teaspoon per doughball. (There are about 2½ teaspoons yeast in a package.) Even so, the dough will keep growing - so when it gets to about double in size, use your finger tips to gently deflate the dough. For me this is about day 5. This will keep the gluten from overstretching, release the carbon dioxide waste product, and redistribute the food for the yeast to grow in a more hospitable environment. (If I am making several doughs to last for several days, I use less yeast than usual. On the other hand, if I want to use it soon, I'll increase the yeast to more than ½ teaspoon per doughball.) Bev

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Dear Beverly K. Collins (Bev): I found Hard Red Spring Wheat Berries from a local “Natural” Foods Store Co-op in Tempe. I have a flour mill with four settings from coarse to super fine. Here is what they offer:
Berry = an un-milled, un-refined & raw grain (whole type)
Berry Name: Hard Red Spring Wheat
Source of berry = Great Falls, Montana
Quality = 100% certified organic
25 LB bag for $11.29 + tax (I picked it up locally in Tempe, AZ @ Gentle Strength Co-Op Natural Foods Store)
Expiration Date of Berry: 06/29/2008 (one long shelf life!)
Company Name:
Montana Milling, Inc.
2123 Vaugh Road
Great Falls, MT 59404
Phone: 1-800-548-8554
My questions are:

Is this the right type spring wheat to use for New York style thin crust pizza dough, as per your pizza course?
Will this berry work once milled in my flour mill, or am I better off buying the flour pre-milled?
How fine do I want to mill the flour?

Cordially, Walter

Hello Walter: The wheat berry you described is the right one; however, grinding it yourself will give you a whole wheat flour. To get the traditional pizza crust as in the pizzeria, you would need mostly the inner (endosperm) or white part of the wheat berry, which the miller achieves by using a bolting process to separate the different fractions of the berry. Unless you are looking for a whole wheat crust, I think you would not find this satisfactory. However, if you ARE wanting a whole wheat product, write me back and I could give you some tips on that! Bev

Hi Bev: Thank you for responding. Your course never mentioned endosperm, wheat berries, or the white part of the wheat. I prefer a whole wheat crust, nutritionally. Can I assume there will be some drawbacks (texture or taste) to the raw hard red spring wheat I bought and what might they be? How should I modify your dough recipe to potentially make it work? Let's assume a 100% whole wheat crust initially as my starting point.

I got my stone from www.foodservicedirect.com. I love the stone. I tried others (from Bed Bath & Beyond, Macy's, Dillard's, and Wal-Mart) - all had 3/8 inch thickness - no good as you stated in your DVD and none of them hold the heat for long. Walter

Hi Walter: Whole wheat is too strong and dense for my taste when it is 100% whole wheat. You may find down the road you will want to dilute it some. Use the finest grind on your mill. Instead of sugar, use honey as that compliments the flavor of whole wheat better than sugar. Use twice as much honey as sugar in the formula; you may find you would like even more after a trial run.

If the crust is not to your taste - that is, it is too “wheaty” - you can mix 50/50 with all purpose flour for a softer crust (or bread flour for a chewier crust). If you like the flavor but the texture is too coarse, substitute 10-20% whole wheat pastry flour to soften it. Bev

Hi Bev: (Subject of email: EXCELLENT PIZZA RESULTS BY ACCIDENT) I just made the best pizza I have ever tasted. And I'm one picky SOB!

Whole Wheat Dough Recipe:
1 cup fresh-milled Hard Red Spring Wheat (from berry)
2 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-purpose flour
1 tsp. active dry yeast
1 TBSP Honey

Mixed in a Kitchen-Aid mixer, low setting for about 15-20 minutes. Coat with olive oil, then let rise for 1 hour (no 2-5 day slow rise in fridge). Spread out and add toppings, then bake for 8 minutes at 500°F. Toppings were organic pizza sauce from a can (Muir Glen) 8 oz., cheese (1/3 mozzarella, 1/3 Monterey Jack, 1/3 Colby), and a sprinkle of organic pizza seasoning on top (from natural foods store).
I simply can't believe it. I don't think it can get any better than this, at least to my taste. It was more of a slightly chewy dough but with excellent flavor and awesome texture. It did not taste “wheaty” at all. It reminded me of a cornmeal dough but in a thinner crust. It beats Gino's East in Chicago, a world famous place. Walter

Hi Walter: I loved the title of you email. Sometimes the best results are serendipitous. What you did makes all the sense in the world. You reminded me that whole wheat is better baked fresh than aged - it can take on some sour notes if kept around too long. Your addition of all-purpose unbleached white flour made a nice balance. Others may want to add the traditional amount of salt to your recipe. You may find you can get the results you want with less mix time. Bev

If you want to experiment with whole wheat, here are some guidelines:

Eliminate the refrigeration period – or refrigerate no more than a day; whole wheat can get off flavor if held too long as dough.
Substitute honey for sugar and use 2-3 times more honey as compared to sugar.
Combine whole wheat with part all purpose white flour. If you choose to not use any white flour but find the 100% whole wheat overpowering, try using 10-20% whole wheat pastry flour to make a softer dough.
Increase the yeast for faster action.

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Question for Bev: How can I produce bubbles in the pizza crust? Like English muffins or ciabatta bread? I tried what they call a poolish - it set for many hours overnight in the fridge and it looked like English muffins, but when I mixed in the rest of the flour I lost all the bubbles. Michael

Hi Michael: It looks like you have already figured out that the bubbles are related to the loose dough. Once you firm it up to support the pizza toppings, you are going to lose that. One option is to keep the dough loose (soft) and constrain it in a pan - make a thicker dough rather than thin crust - and go light on the toppings so they don't weigh the dough down too much. If you use a pan that has holes in the bottom or a dark pan, that will help you get browning on the bottom. Also, once the dough is risen, work it lightly with your fingers as you shape it so you don't work out too much of the air - just break up the large bubbles. Bev

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Hey Bev, What do you keep your flour in? I got one of those 50 lb. bags - and now I'm stumped what to do after I open it. Mike

Hi Mike, I got a huge white plastic tub with lid from a restaurant supply place (restaurant supply places are in every big city). That will hold it if you empty the sack into it. If I can't use it up in about 6 months - or 3 months of summer - I repackage into large zip lock bags or smaller plastic tubs and store in the freezer. I’ve also stored flour in white lidded buckets that restaurants sometimes discard after they use the pickles or whatever came in them. Bev

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Hi Bev: Could you please explain about bromate in flour? You said it strengthens the dough but Vitamin C could be used instead. Please elaborate on that. I really don't understand what you mean by strengthen the dough. The Honeyville brand is great without bromate, I don't see it as less in strength, flavor or texture? What is the bromate doing in the Pillsbury flour? Michael

Hi Michael: Bromate will get you more rising power - which is helpful when you have a lot of toppings on the pizza. Bromate alters the gluten to make it stronger. I have never picked up a taste from it, but some people claim they do, and some others don't want it because it's a chemical additive (potassium bromate - classified as an oxidizing agent - it is normally completely used up in the baking process). Ascorbic acid does the same thing. Use about 12 mg. ascorbic acid for each cup of untreated flour. You can do this by crushing a 100 mg. tablet of Vit. C and mix with 8 teaspoons flour: use 1 teaspoon of this mixture per cup of flour. Or crush a 500 mg. tablet with 10 teaspoons flour: use ¼ teaspoon per cup of flour. You may be able to find capsules of Vitamin C that already are powder. I have been using this trick for years when working with untreated whole grain flours.

Doughs made with untreated flours tend to be softer and more sticky. Sometimes both bromate and ascorbic acid are added to flours. The Honeyville flour which you like has ascorbic acid.

P.S. I am glad to hear you like the Mid-America cheese. It is a very clean, buttery tasting cheese. My favorite. Bev

Hi Bev: Is dough size just a matter of personal taste and experimentation or have you experimented with sizes and found out what is too much for different pan sizes and types?

Rise time. What is your take on rise time? I am experiencing loss of flavor when I allow it to rise too much.

A question about Clear Flour. Where do you find it? What would happen if I used it alone as a dough for pizza? Michael

Hi Michael: Dough size is a matter of personal taste. When my grandson Patrick comes, I make a very thin crust for him (about half a doughball from the dough recipe) and half the cheese I usually use because that's how he likes it. My personal taste is a thicker New York Style dough than probably most people like, medium amount of sauce, and lots of cheese - somewhere between 12 and 16 ounces of cheese on a 16-inch pizza. If these doughs get much thicker than ½ inch, it gets to be too much chewy dough. If I want really thick dough - as in a deep dish or Sicilian pizza - then I prefer to use a deep dish type crust recipe with lower protein flour.

Rise time: The loss of flavor you are experiencing could be due to rising more than double in size - the enzymes break down the starches and continue to feed and grow in an increasing carbon dioxide atmosphere. (Did you catch the alcohol aroma?) Texture changes and flavor change become increasingly pronounced when doughs continue rising past double. Check this out with a side by side comparison from the same dough batch, letting one over rise to the amount you had previously, and the other one at just double in size.

Clear Flour is hard to find. You might find it from a local distributor or a natural foods store. But the only place I have ever found it retail is King Arthur's Baking Catalog. You had asked earlier about adding it to bread flour to get more flavor. For a starting point, try about a 15% replacement of bread flour with Clear Flour.

So what would happen if you used clear flour alone? You've really got to try that for yourself! When I was at General Mills, I asked and the R&D person did not know - he had been there 30 years and never been asked that question! So we had the fun of doing it together. You should have seen the dough! It looked more like a whole wheat dough. When we tried to stretch it out, it bounced right back. We'd stretch, let it rest, stretch, let it rest for about 15 minutes - and this dough had been really well proofed. That stuff was like new elastic! Finally we got it stretched out, topped, and into the oven. It had oven spring like you wouldn't believe! It was chewy, crunchy, crispy - I liked it. But I've never done it again. Bev

Hi Bev: I just figured out a new crust technique. I set the cooked pizza on the pizza screen on a dinner plate turned upside down and allow the steam to leave the bottom of the pizza. An improvement in the finished crust bottom! Michael

Hi Michael: You reminded me that I usually let my pizza set over the cooking grate of my gas stove half a minute or so before moving it onto the cutting board to let the steam boil off. Yes, it does make a difference. Thanks for pointing this out. Bev

Hi Bev: One more question. Yeast. I have been using Instant Active Dry Yeast to good effect. I just ordered SAF Instant Yeast from KA. What is the difference, and what do you advise concerning the different types of yeast? Michael

Hi Michael: There is Active Dry Yeast (ADY) and Instant Dry Yeast (IDY). The Active Dry Yeast must be dissolved in warm water before adding the other ingredients. The Instant Dry Yeast is very fine granules and will dissolve when you mix it with flour and add water. It is suggested that you can use 25% less yeast when you use IDY as compared to ADY.

Yeast companies advertise that you can make bread faster with their instant yeast. Unless I have some reason to be in a hurry, I prefer making bread slower - especially if it's a lean formula dough like pizza or French bread - it takes time for the yeast enzymes to work and flavor byproducts to develop - because there's not much ingredient other than flour and water. A lot of yeast or a very active yeast will rush the dough along - and it is fairly flavorless when you do that. So whether it's instant, fast rising, or regular dried - I just adjust the amount of yeast so it takes about 3 to 5 days for the dough to fully proof (grow to double in size) in the refrigerator. If I want to use the dough before it is fully proofed, I remove it from the refrigerator and let it grow to double in size before I use it.

I buy yeast in pound packages and freeze what I don't use (air tight glass jar). Since there is so little yeast in the pizza dough, I remove the amount I need from the freezer and by the time I'm ready to dissolve it, it has warmed to room temperature.

There is disagreement among the experts on whether you should freeze dry yeast. The reasons against freezing are that the yeast cell structure could be damaged by the temperature fluctuations from the self-defrosting cycle and opening of the freezer door. So they may recommend putting your yeast in the back of the refrigerator, where it will keep 4 months or so. But here's my experience: My husband brought home four 1 lb. packages of IDY that had just expired. After telling him I couldn't use that much yeast the rest of my life if it never expired, I gratefully put it in the freezer (he bought it for a buck!). Three years later we are on the last package. (He had to learn to make bread.) It is still working great. So I freeze yeast.

I have used every brand and type of yeast and found they all work fine. In side by side comparisons you may be able to tell a minimal flavor difference in the crust - but once you put toppings on, I doubt you can. I know you'll be happy with the SAF - it has a clean taste and dissolves easily.

When making pizza I always dissolve the yeast in warm water first anyway, because my second addition of water is cold so I can slow the yeast action and keep the finished dough on the cool side (max. 75 degrees F.) Bev

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Recently I have been experimenting with a different type of stone: Fibrament – with excellent results. Fibrament is the material used in commercial deck ovens. AWMCO makes a 3/4” thick stone for home use, which is an ideal thickness as it heats up and cools down in a reasonable amount of time. I feel the baking advantage is the thickness of the stone, which doesn’t cool off as much as the 1/2" thick stone when the pizza is placed on it, so I have been able to bake the pizza completely on the screen without removing the screen to get complete browning on the crust underside the last 1/2 to 1 minute of baking. The cost is considerably more, however – delivered cost $66. If you want to know more, please visit the AWMCO website.

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Subject: Crust Problem…HELP! My crust is coming out TOUGH. The inside is light and airy, but the bottom of the crust and the bone are tough. My oven will only heat to 500 degrees. What am I doing wrong? John
P.S. No matter where I’ve lived, every pizzeria has an excuse for a bad crust. Now I’m living in Florida and, of course, their excuse is the water. John
Hello John: It is true that the slower you bake, the more the crust can cook and toughen on the outside, but I don’t think that is what is happening. Check these things:

Which side of the doughball faces the pizza screen? If the top side gets some air to it and develops a bit of “skin,” and then you make this the bottom, this can make the crust tougher. Put the soft side down if you are not already doing this.
You don’t want the dough to be sticky and possibly stick to the screen, but having said that, make a pizza with as little flour as possible – just to make sure that excess flour is not contributing to the toughness of the bottom.
Make sure the stone is heated to oven temperature. Give it 40 minutes preheat on your next bake just to be absolutely certain. Usually 10 extra minutes after the oven comes to heat is enough for a 1/2” thick stone.
Your stone is 1/2 inch thick – not 3/8 inch?
How brown is the crust? If it is fairly dark, can you back off to a lighter golden brown and still like the crust? At 500 degrees, a shorter bake time could prevent extra drying out on the outside.
Is the crust equally brown on top and bottom? If it is browner on the bottom than on the top (bone), raise the rack a position.
When you pull the pizza out of the oven, let it set on a cooling rack or the pizza screen on top your stove for ½ to 1 minutes. This will let some steam dissipate and help keep the crispness.
Another idea to try and maybe you should try this one fairly early in your testing: Back off on the amount of flour and make a slightly softer dough. A dough too heavy with flour will be tough.
One additional thought: if you want the crust fairly dark, but it is taking too much baking time to get the color, try increasing the sugar – double it or more. The sugar will promote browning and help hold moisture.

Bev

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Here are some experiments worth performing if you are not satisfied with the texture of your crust:

Rising: The more the dough rises, the more fragile and crisp it becomes. Stay with the same formula and procedure this first time around. Make 2 doughs to compare. Let the first dough rise to 2 ½ times it’s original size before making the pizza; try to make this dough into pizza 2-3 days later (48 – 72 hours) from the time you first mixed it – part of the rising will be in the refrigerator and part on the countertop. Let the second dough rise in the refrigerator to 2 ½ times in size before making the pizza, which will probably be about 5 days. The second dough should be more fragile and crisp than the first because of the age. If the yeast in the 2nd dough is too active so it starts to rise too much, gently deflate some of the air with your fingertips.

Evaluation:

Mixing: More mixing makes a stronger gluten structure. For this experiment, make 2 doughs to compare, using same formula and procedure. Mix the dough to the right consistency, but do not knead the first one. Do knead the second one your usual amount of time. Bake both doughs on the same day between days 3 and 5.

Evaluation:

Oil and sugar increase tenderness. If #1 or #2 is not what you are looking for, pick the crust you liked best from #1 or #2 and the time frame you liked best. Double the oil in the formula. Evaluation:

Next time double both oil and sugar in the formula. Evaluation:

A dough with less flour (more water) is more fragile, tender and crisp. A dough with more flour is chewier, more substantial, and supports the toppings better Make 2 doughs. To one of the doughs add 1/2 cup more flour (or if you make a very firm dough, add 1/2 cup less flour). Bake both doughs on the same day.

Evaluation:

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Hi Bev, What do you do when the dough wants to constrict back when you are rolling it out? The first batch I made I let sit in the fridge for 3 days. The second was the one that wanted to constrict back. It was refrigerated for about 4 days or so. Does it make any difference if the dough is still cold or should it be room temp? Tom P.S. I’ve had that problem with my dough in the past.
Good question, Tom. This flour has really strong gluten, so it naturally tends to resist rolling out. Any of these make the dough rolling easier:

Letting it warm to 65 degrees or more.
Making a wetter dough (using not quite as much flour as last time – dough is softer and more stretchable).
Shortening the mixing time so the gluten doesn’t develop as well.
Roll as far as it wants to stretch easily, cover and let rest for a couple minutes – repeat as needed until stretched out. You want to avoid forcing the dough and breaking the gluten strands.
Make sure the dough is doubled in size – even
2 ½ times in size if the dough is very firm – over-rising will thin out the gluten, making it more workable.

Numbers 2 and 3 will change the texture of the dough – which you may or may not like. Bev

Thanks, Bev. The last one was by far the best pizza I’ve ever made (and I’ve made hundreds of them). The dough was room temperature and rolled out nicely. It was very simple – mozzarella cheese, homemade Canadian bacon, fresh parmesan cheese. I’ll be trying some of the other ideas soon. FYI, I use a pizza sauce called Don Pepino (I have to order it online) www.donpepion.com. Best I’ve ever tasted. I could make some $$ with these pies! Tom

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Hello Bev, Thought I’d give you an update to my pizza making. I’m still experimenting, but I’m making headway. I neglected to tell you in my previous email that I too, like your grandson Patrick, like a thinner crust. I can make (2) 15-inch pies with your batch recipe for dough.
Now, as far as my tough crust problem, I’ve incorporated a couple of your suggestions and making great progress. I’ve gotten the cooking time down to 10 minutes tops. I loved chemistry classes in high school and college. Cooking to me is like a chemistry experiment. So I now realize how important proofing is with the lean dough we are using. That very same batch that I wrote to you about produced another pie. It raised in the refrigerator 2 more days, plus I allowed it to proof at room temperature for 4 hours before making my pie. The result was 10 times better. I did incorporate another one of your suggestions and doubled the sugar. This seems to crispen the crust and brown it faster. Makes sense to me also.

Here’s the technical thing in me talking … your oven is shorter than my full-sized oven, so you get more reflective heat off the top of the oven. By moving my rack to center, my cooking time was reduced because the top browned quicker and I was able to remove the screen sooner allowing the bottom crust to brown in less time.
One of my favorite movies is Moonstruck. There’s a scene where Nicholas Cage and Cher are talking in the basement of Cammararie’s Bakery. I’ve looked at the Spring Wheat Flour Bag about 100 times. Why didn’t I get it? Funny.
I will continue my mad scientist … I mean pizza making perfectionist trials … and more than likely write to you again. John

Hello John: Thanks for the update. Your keen observation on the oven caught my attention as I had not thought about that before.
Noting how long it took for your dough to rise, I’m going to suggest increasing the amount of yeast so you don’t have to allow so much proof time outside the refrigerator. Yeasts can be variable in their activity. You could increase with your current yeast, and when get a new batch of yeast find you have to decrease so the dough doesn’t rise too fast in the refrigerator.

About the sugar: I’m seeing there are other people who are having trouble on this browning point also, and I am thinking that more sugar is the best answer for them too, and as a result have included this suggestion in the pizza book. Especially when you are baking at 500 degrees, more sugar will crisp and color the crust quicker as you observed, while retaining more water in the interior, helping eliminate a toughness problem.

About the olive oil: Olive oil is most helpful in lubricating the gluten so the dough stretches easily – find the point where the dough stretches easily and still gives you the texture you like. The more olive oil you use, the less chewy the crust will be. It is a personal call where the line is between chewy and tough, and too soft and tender. Bev

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Hi Bev, I have to bake dough on the screen in oven for 3 to 4 minutes before I bake the pizza to make it come out brown and right. I have tried it in 3 different ovens. Am I doing something wrong with the dough? Russ

Hi Russ, I take it the browning is not happening on both top and bottom of crust. You shouldn’t be having to pre-bake the crust if you can get your oven to 500 degrees. I’d suggest the first thing is to make sure the dough is fully aged and fully proofed. If you use it sooner than 48 hours, you won’t get good browning. If it is less than 100% proofed, you won’t get good browning. Test: Making sure the dough is 100% proofed (finish proofing outside the refrigerator for whatever time is needed to get it proofed to double in volume before using), bake off a pizza at 2 days, 3 days, and 4 days of age. What differences did you find in browning? My guess is you’ll see more browning as time goes on.

If the dough is rising very slowly in the refrigerator so that you are having to proof it a long time outside the refrigerator, increase the amount of yeast. The activity of the yeast promotes browning.
A simple solution that will generally work is to add a little more sugar to the formula – try with 2 teaspoons and 3 teaspoons sugar.
Also, make sure the stone is fully heated. Give it a minimum of 10 minutes more after the oven comes to heat. Bev

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Hi Bev, What’s your thoughts on freezing this dough? Everybody is loving this pizza! Tom
Hi Tom: Great to hear! About freezing: Rich doughs, like for the deep dish pizza, do freeze well. Lean doughs don’t freeze well – not enough sugar, fat, and other rich ingredients. The protein gets denatured, so the crust tends to be limp, flat, and soggy. But, after hearing this, if you still want to experiment with freezing, here’s the best way:

Eliminate the sponge period at the beginning of the instructions. Just make a straight dough with no fermentation time.
Get the dough into the freezer as soon as possible.
And here is the hardest part: freeze the dough as slowly as possible. About the only way I can think of to do this is to put the dough into a Styrofoam or other type insulated container so the cold will get to it slowly.
On the reverse side, when you take it out of the freezer you want to thaw it quickly, like put it in your oven with the oven light turned on and a bowl of very warm water so it is about 100 degrees or so.

Some people are okay with the trade-off. The less topping you put on these pizzas so the dough isn’t weighted down, the better it will rise. Cheese pizza is better than adding other toppings. If you decide to experiment, please write back and let me know your results and whether you were satisfied enough to continue with freezing the dough. Bev

Hi Bev: Sounds like I might not want to venture into the frozen zone. What are your thoughts on precooking the dough, maybe just until it starts to become firm, and then freezing? After it’s properly aged and proofed, of course. Tom

Right on, Tom – I used to par bake 10-20 at a time, cool them on racks, then stack them in a bag in the freezer – when I had 3 teenagers. They would come home from school, heat up the pizza stone, add sauce, cheese and toppings we always had on hand, and bake. I didn’t know until years later that the smell of pizza attracted all the kids in the neighborhood so our house was Pizza Central. I just thought they were mighty hungry teenagers.

I would par bake the dough until it was set and cooked through but not browned (like brown and serve rolls before you bake them off). Prick the dough well with a fork before you bake – this will help prevent large bubbles from forming, and check during the baking in case you need to pop some more bubbles with a long handled fork. I pre-baked about 300-350 degrees. Bev

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Hi: I have one question I did not see covered in your book. I make a pretty good pizza but one problem I can’t seem to solve is having what I call a heavy “gum line” of uncooked dough under the sauce/cheese. The edge of my crust is perfect. I have played with cooking temperatures and times, but no real luck. I was trained at Papa John’s. I have been told by some people at PJ’s that the slapping method can cause this problem. Cole

Hi Cole: I have not heard that explanation before, but I can see how it might fit: if the crust is thinned out too much under the topped area, there will not be sufficient support for the toppings. Test this idea by topping half of the pizza with just cheese and the other half with your regular toppings. Was the area under the cheese only side better than the side weighted with other toppings?

Credit to Tom Lehman for this: How are you checking for gum line? Are you checking where you have cut or made a bite? The cut area often displays that gum line “look.” Instead, tear the slice apart. Do you still have the gum line?

Let’s presume you still do. These are the next areas to consider:

Are you using a spring wheat flour for best results?
Try either making a heavier dough ball that gives more support under the toppings, or shaping the dough to make sure the weight of the dough stays under the topping area rather than the outside 2-3 inches. Leave plenty of dough in the center using the palm print method from the video and not working that center area at all – letting that area stretch out to keep plenty of dough near the center to support the toppings.
Try making your dough firmer (more flour). #2 and #3 are the most likely culprits.
Keep your toppings heavier toward the outside area and lighter around the center – toppings will naturally tend to flow toward the center as the pizza bakes.
Be absolutely sure the dough has doubled in size before using it.
Make your sauce thicker – more paste in it.
Make sure your stone has had sufficient time to heat to oven temperature.
This last one is something you have no control over: on occasion flour has too much enzyme in it. This can occur if the growing/harvesting season is wetter than usual or too much wheat has sprouted before milling, resulting in excess amylase, which will cause the carbohydrate to break down into simple sugars faster than usual. If this is the case, you might be more successful if you eliminated the sugar entirely and used the dough on days 2 and 3, rather than storing it longer.

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Subject: Pizzeria Secrets are the worst and ruined my life!
Thanks very much for the secrets!

My wife and her family always made a decent pizza. When we were married we used all purpose flour (or the quick method, a package of Martha White) for the crust and we found a cheap store brand (Star Cross in Virginia Beach, Virginia) and when we moved back to Michigan we found Contadina. Anyway, we were happy with our homemade pizza but it was NEVER like what we could order. Then when the local pizza shops, either independent or chains, became busy the quality of their pies always seemed to suffer.

I reviewed the on-line video, found our flour (at GFS-Gordon Food Service) mixed our dough, and using the techniques sat down and made my own Special Sauce.

We patted out our doughs and I even tossed them in the air ... still need lots of practice but had great fun. Still working on our technique for placing the pies on the stone/in the oven etc. but not bad for a first attempt.

Placed our toppings (as usual I put too many toppings on) following the recommendations, cooked at 500 degrees F (never done that before) and a few moments later ... my goodness we had a nice pizza. We made one meatlovers, one supreme, one Hawaiian, and one Chicago deep dish in a pan. Our Pizzas came out of the oven looking like a DiGiorno’s Pizza, and something that came from Uno’s Pizzeria, and what Emeril made on TV ... they really were that good looking!

Sounds like a resounding success doesn't it?
Here is the problem: MY own "Secret Sauce" using your techniques, and the dough my Wife made using your recipe and the correct flour... well there is no way I can ever purchase a pizza again ... the ones we make are flat out better tasting, better looking ... What is wrong with that? Well, now I can't share with my children the experience of going to a pizzeria. LOL

There is some good news! I now get to share with my family an even better tradition, that of making our own “better” pizzas. Steve and family

Dear Steve, This was so funny I have to print it. Pizza lovers are the best! Bev

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Hey Bev, We made some great pizzas. First we made a Supreme (special sauce, cheese blend of Swiss, white Vermont aged cheddar, Asiago, Parmesan, Monterey Jack, mozzarella, and thin sliced Muenster), pepperoni, onion, green pepper, green olives, black olives, bacon, hot sausage. I followed the recipe in your video for the sauce and added more pepper for our personal taste, also added 3 teaspoons of lemon juice and 1 teaspoon olive oil – this helps to bring forward the flavor, and added ¼ teaspoon thyme, and a slight bit more fennel.

When cooked, the extra peppers give a little longer lasting effect when chewing the pizza … quite nice.

We then tried our hand at personal pizzas. It was a little awkward trying to pat the dough out in a consistent circle, and they were anything but round. Two were Hawaiian, with ham, mild ring (banana) peppers, and pineapple bits cut down to better fit the personals. I like just the mozzarella/Muenster combo for these and the sauce was the same.

Next were a couple personal Supremes except that I added 1 teaspoon sugar to 1 cup sauce to make for a Chicago style sweet deep-dish flavor (also works great for a dipping sauce). Finally, 3 are personal Super Supremes which have the Supreme toppings listed but additional pineapple, mild peppers and finely diced jalapenos to jazz it up. Very good as well … 2 were with the sauce and 1 with the sweet sauce. The sweeter sauce went better with the mild and hot peppers.
With the help of my wife I was able to fight the urge to add too much of each topping to our pies and they turned out even better than before. Steve

Hi Steve and Sandy,
I like your Supreme combination. A few nights ago my husband did this Supreme combination that was really good: Pepperoni, Italian sausage, bacon, red peppers, green olives.

I like what you did with your sauce. We too like more pepper than in the basic recipe and I am hearing from other readers who say the same.

About personal pizzas: I often do a combination of hand shape and roller (I’ve got one about 4-5 inches long and on the other end is an even smaller roller) because they are so difficult to stretch. Sometimes it helps to roll or stretch them as much as they are willing, then cover and let rest a couple minutes, then come back and stretch some more. Bev

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Hi Bev, We found a source for the flour but had to buy a 50# bag. We’ve put it in Ziploc bags and were wondering if would be okay to store the flour in the freezer. We live in Florida and as it’s humid and hot in the summer, we had a concern about storing this much flour on the shelf. I was able to buy the flour locally form a lady who makes bagels fresh. Ed and Nan

Hi Ed and Nan, This is exactly the right thing to do to keep the crawlies from hatching out. I store on the shelf only the amount I plan to use in 3 months in summer. Bev

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Hi Bev, I have been making pizza since 1972 and this takes the cake! One little problem: how do you spread the dough? You make it look so easy. Del

Hi Del, I’m glad to hear most everything is working! About spreading the dough – a few things to try:

A softer dough will spread easier. Back off on the flour a small amount – 1/4 cup can make the difference; after you form the dough into a doughball and observe it, make sure it is relaxing just a little. I think this is the most likely answer to making the dough stretch easily. Recently I made up a dough that was too soft (too little flour in proportion to water) and it took about 3 slaps and was stretched out. The crust on this was crisp, fragile, tender – but too soft to support the toppings well so was rather compressed under the 6 toppings we had on it.
The dough will spread easier when it is warm than straight out of the refrigerator. It should take ½ to 1 hour out of refrigerator to warm up.
Be sure the dough is 100% proofed. If the dough seems heavy (a lot of flour) let it proof more than 100% to thin out the gluten.
More oil in the dough will make it spread easier by lubricating the gluten better. Try increasing the amount of oil – instead of 1¼ teaspoons, use 2 teaspoons.
When you are working the dough with your fingers as you are preparing to put it on the screen, use a spreading outward motion to gently stretch rather than simply pressing down with your fingers.

Bev

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Hello Bev, The pizza really sticks to the screen when we try to remove it to put the pizza on the stone to finish browning the bottom. We sprayed it with non-stick food spray and baked it at 350 degrees for the 20 minutes, then resprayed. Could you tell me if there is any special way these screens are supposed to be taken care of – such as should the screen be washed every time it is used, then resprayed? Brian

Hello Brian, My experience is that no matter how hard you try, sticking to the screen is going to happen on occasion. You want to get to the “on occasion.” It sounds like you have been doing everything right. You are using a non-stick spray like PAM. Never wash the screens with soap – that will remove the finish and cause sticking. Sometimes when the dough sticks, it seems to want to keep on sticking.

First, make sure you have all the current burned on dough removed as well as possible. Two ways to do this:

Put the screen back in the hot oven and bake it until the dough burns and you can break or crumble it off, then use a brush to remove any residue. Don’t wash. Just respray heavily with non-stick spray and then again just before you use it. Spray both sides always.
Or soak off the burned-on dough in a sink of water, making sure you brush all traces away. Dry thoroughly, then spray, store the screen away, and spray again just before using.

Three additional things to check:

When you are laying the dough, sauce, and toppings on the screen, make sure you are not accidentally pushing the dough down into the mesh. This is most likely to happen when saucing.
If the screen is functioning properly, the dough will release as it begins to brown. But until it reaches a certain point of release, it will stick to the screen. If this is the case, you are probably getting a large portion of your pizza stuck. Try giving it a little more time before you separate the screen from the crust.
One last possibility I can think of – sometimes if the pizza slides across the stone as you put it into the oven, the dough will catch and wrap under the screen and burn in place. But then you have just one end of it stuck down and you can usually work the rest of it free, and then free up most of the stuck part.

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Hi Bev, I appreciate your replies to my emails. In response to our ongoing saga, I've taken a few pictures of my last pizza making escapade.

The first couple pictures are of my kitchen and pizza making equipment. Note, I've been using these for almost 15 years and they are definitely seasoned.

(Note from Bev to readers: One person tell me they threw out their stone when it got like this. For John this is now well seasoned!)

I know that sooner or later thanks to you, I will achieve "my" perfect pizza. I made mention in a previous email that I really think pizza is a personal thing and we all are striving to recreate that one pie that stays in our mind.

I found these covered plastic bowls at Wal-Mart. I place the cover on top of the bowl but don't seal it in the refrigerator. They also keep the dough nice and round during proofing.
(Note from Bev: just weeks before I had discovered this bowl at Wal-Mart and also liked it.)

Also, Whole Milk Mozzarella Cheese is so much better than the Part Skim. It's softer and creamier. I do love making a blend. Kraft makes a combo blend of 5 cheeses: Mozzarella, Romano, Parmesan, Asiago and Provolone. I take 4 oz. of that and mix it with a
16 oz. Whole Milk Mozzarella ball that I grate myself per batch.
Bueno Appetito! John

Hello John,
Thank you for sharing once again. I learn so much from readers that I am able to pass on to help others. I used to teach beginning and advanced bread making courses in cooking schools; when I started I thought I knew everything. I discovered I still had much to learn. Like you said, pizza is an individual thing. People want their answers. I’m sure many people will benefit from the exchanges we have had. Bev

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I did not know it would cost about $80 in cookware to make pizzas. WE are retired and have to wait to budget additional monies to purchase the additional cookware. Jerry

Hello Jerry, Be sure to check out alternate less costly ways of doing everything: About $5 for unglazed quarry tiles at the home store in place of a $40 baking stone; parchment paper at the grocery store to form the pizza on for about $3 (don’t bake higher than 450 degrees) - or skip that and form the dough on flour or cornmeal on a cookie sheet with flat side and slide it into the oven onto the tiles – not as handy as a pizza peel but it works; some people have formed the dough on an inexpensive splatter screen without handle from a Dollar Store (be sure there is no plastic, and cut off the handle). You can use your current pizza pan but place it on the tiles – you can also slide the pizza off or out of the pan directly onto the tiles to get more browning once the dough is set. Buy bread flour at the grocery store and leave the oil out of the recipe – it won’t be quite as chewy inside and crisp outside as it would be from a higher gluten flour, but will still make a very good pizza. You should be able to get started for about $10. Bev

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Hi Bev, My new cheese blend is 3/4 mozzarella and 1/4 Munster. I tasted many cheeses in the last few months. Not a big fan of Provolone. Monterey Jack was good but not as good as Muenster. The sauce I have been using is Ragu traditional pizza Snack Sauce. Vic

Thanks for your tips, Vic. Readers may be interested to know that Wikipedia describes Munster (pronounced: MOON-ster) as coming from the Alsace region of France. The American version is called Muenster (pronounced: MUHN-stuhr or MOON-ster). Sauces from Ragu as well as some other brands make good, hurry up pizza sauces. Thick ones you can use as is; otherwise add some tomato paste to thicken. Adjust spices to your taste if needed.

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Hi Bev, Larry here. I have obtained good results with this flour making my San Francisco sourdough bread. I have also included some of my starter in the pizza dough and have had good results. Also, I was using too much garlic in the sauce and I was afraid to use that much hot stuff (pepper). The sauce is quite hot when tasting it out of the pot, but as a sauce on the pizza, it is great!

Hi Larry, Glad you picked up on the hotness of the sauce straight out of the pot, but that when you put it on the pizza, it’s not too hot. (Note: on the other hand, some readers have written they had to tone it down!) I’m glad you are having good results using the flour in doughs made with your sourdough starter. The strength of the gluten really helps to counteract the denaturing effect of the acid produced in sourdough fermentation. I always feel the sourdough is a great shortcut to flavor when a small amount is added to a standard recipe. Bev

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Hello Bev, Is there any truth to using whole milk mozzarella versus part skim for a better pizza? Paul
Hello Paul, If I were using only mozzarella, I would prefer the whole milk mozz for more flavor (let’s assume we’re comparing 2 made by the same cheese maker – because flavor can vary so much just based on the maker). So flavor is one thing. However, most whole milk mozz tends to bake out more grease during baking, which for me is a negative. Young whole milk mozzarella holds up better in high oven heat, but it can be hard to find a source for young cheese. I almost never put plain mozz on a pizza – instead mixing it with a more flavorful cheese, so I go for the better performance of the part skim. Very good question – and as you can see, not necessarily a single answer. Bev

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Hi Bev, I made my first pizza with the flour you suggested, the Pendleton Power. My pizza was amazing! I actually found a second-hand baking stone. When I heated it in the oven, it was smoking and dark-looking. Are the stones supposed to look like that? And there appeared to be “stuff” oozing out of the center. Should I be seasoning this somehow or soaking it?

I remembered what you said about the sauce that was made with just tomatoes and basil. I used Ragu Chunky sun-dried and sweet basil spaghetti sauce as a starter and just barely adjusted it – it was fabulous – just the tomato and basil was a perfect suggestion. I think it would be great if you also threw on some fresh basil leaves, like if you were making a chicken pizza. Marsha.

Hi Marsha, On your recommendation I tried that Ragu sauce and agree! About your stone - it's okay for it to be dark. I wonder if it got saturated with grease either accidentally or the person who had it thought you had to season it with grease. And now it is baking off. Choices: Scrub with a baking soda/water paste or better: bake it until whatever is causing the smoking gets burned up - or - if you or someone you know has a self cleaning oven, run it through the clean cycle – open the windows and turn on the fan to blow out the odor.

in my gas oven, I can set the stone on the bottom of the oven for cleaning. When I had an electric oven, I sacrificed a rack to put it on - kind of ruins the nice finish on the rack - but it sure cleans the rack well! Maybe I'd better ask you one other question - is it the brownish-tan colored type of stone? If it's a gray one made of Fibrament, I'd suggest something different: the gray one tends to absorb odors, so it is recommended you don’t put it through the oven clean cycle – or if you do, that you run the oven through a clean cycle first to remove the odors, then use the clean cycle again to clean the stone. You can put a sheet of foil over it to protect it when baking too. Bev

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Hi Bev, My first pizza came out quite well. Before I made my first attempt I wanted to make sure that I had all the right tools and supplies for it. Finding the flour and the pizza stone in Canada was a challenge. In my search for a good stone I came across a tile store to get my red tiles. I was a bit shy to tell them what I wanted to use it for, but finally I had to come out with the truth! Them knowing what I wanted, they persuaded me to go with a 1/2-inch thick granite stone, which they had many people come and buy for baking purposes. I got a 16" x 16" stone for $10.00 so I figure I couldn't lose much on trying it. After that I went into a different store and saw a real baking stone and also bought it, since that is what I really wanted. I ended up liking the granite so much I haven't even tried the other one. It's still brand new sitting in the cupboard.

Finding the flour was the next thing. I ended up contacting a major flour company here in Canada, Robin Hood Flours, and they told me that the best bet was to go with their "best for bread" flour.

Now, back to my pizza experience. I made the dough and it worked perfectly. I had watched the DVD a few times, especially the section on making the dough. The dough rose too fast even in the refrigerator. After 2 days in the fridge, I had to bake it. I left the pizza too long in the oven because the cheese didn't melt. So
finally we ate a burned pizza with cheese that had become like cottage cheese on the pizza. In our attempt to make it a better tasting pizza we had put too much Parmesan cheese on it. So after all we did, it wasn't a great outcome.

I was determined to make good tasting pizza, so right that evening I made new dough for the crust, put it in the fridge ready to try again. By now I am saying that my pizza is better then the one in our home town pizza restaurant. My wife is getting worried that we will have pizza too often. (She isn't the best pizza lover.)

My wife and I were so pleased with the sauce that we came up with. We used the smallest amount of every thing you put out in the recipe. The amazing thing was, that after a few days in the fridge, the sauce was a lot better and richer. I am sold on that recipe. When visitors and friends want to know, I say, "It's my secret recipe."
I have lots to learn and am getting interested in getting some tips to start my own pizza shop. Koby

Hello Koby, It does feel a little strange to buy cooking equipment at a floor store. So thanks for writing about your experiences. I am sending some tips to get started in your own business.

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Hi Bev, I finally made my first pizzas today. After ordering all the equipment and finding the right flour and making the dough and proofing it, it took about 2 weeks but it was worth it. I tried a different sauce than the one you suggested. I made one like a traditional marinara. I started sautéing some finely chopped onions in olive oil, then added 4 cloves of fresh crushed garlic. Then added 2 cans san marzano whole peeled tomatoes, 1 can crushed tomatoes, then paste, then spices. Simmered it for like 6 hours. Fuggetaboutit! This sauce is the "BOMB!"

I followed your recipe for dough. It said it would make one 16" or two 12". The largest stone that would fit in my oven leaving the proper 1-inch clearance on each side was 17-3/4" x 13-1/2". So the largest screen I could get was a 12". I evenly split the dough ball from your recipe into two equal halves. I feel it could have made two 14-inch pies instead. It was more like a "regular" crust than a thin crust. It came out exceptional though. The bottom was so golden brown. I couldn't believe that I actually made this! The first pizza was just sliced mozzarella, sauce, and fresh chopped basil. The second was black olive, mushroom and half pepperoni/half peppered salami. Both were AWESOME!!
I have a few questions about my next project ... deep dish pizza. Do you suggest "par-baking" the crust to ensure that the inner crust is not under-cooked and doughy? Also what is your view on using the same flour or even the same dough as the thin crust recipe? If not, what are the reason(s)? Bill
Hi Bill, I'm glad to hear the pizza lived up to your expectations. You sound like a New Yorker! (Fuggetaboutit!) A few weeks ago several of us made a trek to NYC and visited a couple of the famous pizza places. They put the slices of fresh mozz on before anything else. It was a pretty good pizza but I thought my home replica was better. I have added tips on that to the eBook now.
You are absolutely right about the crust thickness - you are in the group that would make two 14-inch or even two 16-inch out of my dough ball. Maybe three 12-inch for you?

About deep dish - If it's not too thick, like 1/2 inch, it doesn't need par-baking. Several people have told me they use the thin crust recipe for the deep dish also. I like my deep dish pizza base more like soft bread and not chewy - that's why I make a richer dough (more sugar, oil) and use all-purpose flour. I suggest if a reader does not like the soft dough to use the thin crust recipe but increase the sugar and oil, and maybe use bread flour instead. This makes a substantial but not too chewy crust. Bev

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This letter was copied to me by my correspondent in England – Ron W. – who has helped UK people source equipment and flour:

Dear Maria: Regarding your question about a baking stone, I have used natural sandstone without any problems. Usually a piece from a garden centre has been stored outside so would need heating up slowly to the operating temperature to drive out any water as it is quite porous. As Bev says, commercial stones are hardly thick enough to retain the heat for multiple baking which it sounds as though you will be doing as your family grows up (also, don't forget all their school pals will find your pad a popular place to hang out!) My piece of sandstone is one inch thick and works well.
The problem with all of this is to find a suitable stone that is smooth enough. I don't know what the availability of suitable stone is like in your area, but garden centres are a very good source. You need natural stone, not reconstituted stone. Ron

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Dear Beverly, Is that really you? It is so nice of you to take the time to e-mail me. Today everything is so impersonal with big business, we kind of miss that local store that really cares, you know?

Well my first pizza came out really good to my surprise. I made the sauce on the high side of your ingredients and it was a little too spicy for us – you didn't taste the other toppings. I did learn (I've made 3 batches so far) to separate the dough not into equal balls, but 3/4 and 1/4, to make 1 -12-in. and a little personal pan pizza.

I found separating the risen dough just before use was hard to get them into a round shape because when you cut the dough in half you ended up with 2 half rounds. The second time I used fresh mozzarella and caused the cheese to burn. I took it out, and it wasn't crispy enough. You must have an oversized oven to fit the 16" pie in there. I couldn't. I can only make 2- 12".

Oh! The other thing I wanted to tell you is I ordered the Sir Lancelot flour from King Arthur, but on the bag it says HARD WHEAT, not soft or spring wheat. They said they have only one flour named Sir Lancelot. So I don't know if that makes a difference. Joann

Dear Joann, Yes, I answer all letters personally - I like to know that everyone is succeeding. Every so often I find someone who has not succeeded, and often it is something simple. But I'm glad to hear you are doing well!

Isn't sauce an individual thing! I talk to people who double everything and people who cut everything in half. You came up with a good way to size your pizzas! And yes, you are so right about getting the dough round to begin with; it is easier to shape and slap out round if you start with round dough balls first! You can make an irregular dough round, but it takes a lot of practice. Always call the misshapen ones "rustic" pizza!

Put the fresh mozzarella under the sauce to keep it from burning. Fresh cheese will always burn if exposed.
The Sir Lancelot is a hard wheat – it’s a hard, spring wheat. Only pastry/cake type flours are grown from soft wheat and some may be blended with all-purpose flours. I will explain that better, so thanks for commenting. Bev

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Bev, Update since my first message: I reduced the amount of yeast from 1/2 tsp to 1/4 tsp and now the dough takes two days to double. I left one in the refrigerator when I was on a trip to San Diego for 2 1/2 days and when I got home it was out of control. I guess you could say the one thing that is not quite to my liking is that the dough is missing the taste that I'm looking for. It has the texture but I like a more yeasty taste and I am trying to achieve that. My first taste of pizza was in a little mom and pops shop in little Italy NY in 1960.

On a good note, I have been taking a few slices of my pies into work and was told I am not allowed to bring any more in unless I bring enough for everybody. It’s funny seeing people come by my office to check out how my last pizza turned out and that I might have an extra piece so they can give me an opinion. I have one disbeliever that asked me what pizza shop I got it from because he says "you can’t make pizza like this at home."

I have tried Bay State Milling Bouncer from a nearby GFS store with some success. I tried some King Arthur, but the Bouncer is far better. The mill that makes the Bouncer makes a flour called Winona Patent. Is that a better flour to use? Mike

Mike, I wonder if you reduced the yeast further so it would proof for 4 days, if that would be more to your liking. The extra time will bring up the flavor. Also, experiment with letting the dough overproof some - like 2 1/2 times instead of double. Let me know your results in case I can think of something else if this doesn’t work.

White flours are often labeled Patent - but much patent flour is made to produce fluffy white bread, not chewy pizza crust – patent means the flour is coming from the streams closest to the center of the wheat kernel – the white flour. For pizza you want some of the rougher stuff like you get in Bouncer, which has a higher ash content than most patent flours. Bouncer would be the mill’s higher ash flour in this case. Bev

Bev, I let a reduced yeast batch go while I was in San Diego for 5 full days. The flavor was fantastic. This one change made a tremendous difference. Thanks for the advice. I have got what I wanted now. Mike

Mike, It’s amazing how those enzymes can turn the dough into something so tasty given enough time. Thanks for writing and keeping up the experiments. It is exciting when a reader finally gets the success they were wanting. Bev

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Hi Bev, I am still making lots of pizzas. I've gone through almost 200 lbs of flour since I started my pizza quest. I have a couple of questions. I was re-reading your manual (for the 1000 time) and ran across "whey powder" for crispness. I thought I would try it but can't find it. I checked at King Arthur but they do not have it. Do you know where I might find it? Lee

Hi Lee, Bob's Red Mill has whey powder in the U.S. - two kinds - sweet and regular. I've seen it at grocery stores around the country, so check grocery first, then whole foods stores. Another option is a bakery supply house. It is also sold on line, but try to find it locally so you don’t pay postage. Bev

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Hi Bev, Here’s an update to your question about the sourdough starter I am using in pizza dough. I do use King Arthur sourdough all the time. The one I tried starting myself just never was right. I've kept this one going and have shared it with friends. I put 2 tablespoons in a batch of dough that I get 5 nine ounce dough balls out of (45 ounces).

My experiments went well. I made four batches and used more sugar in varying amounts in each batch. (Note: sourdoughs usually need extra sugar to brown.) When I was looking for whey powder, I saw vital wheat gluten and read the back of the box. It said it would improve the crumb and I decided to put some in the last batch. I was sure I was wasting my time but ... that dough was the best yet. I used 1 tablespoon in the batch and it was great. Really crisp and a great flavor. I could tell by looking in my oven while it cooked that things were different. I like it when I get a big bubble or two in the pizza dough and I did with this batch more than the others. When I cut the pizza, it sounded different and the wheel passed through easily, no toughness, just ahhhhhh!

My big party in June went just fine. We cooked all the pizzas outside on a grill. The guest list was 54 people. We cooked (25) 10 inch pizzas at a time on three very large grills. And then did another 15. It really came together smoothly. Lee

Lee, Thanks for the KA sourdough information and your success with vital wheat gluten. I get occasional questions on these and will pass on your success and compliments on KA’ sourdough starter. I note it’s a very small amount of sourdough starter you are using - sounds like you are getting flavor but not the texture you often associate with sourdoughs. I wish you continued good fortunes in your new pizza catering business. Bev

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Hi Bev, My wife makes roasted tomatoes: buy 3-4 pounds of plum tomatoes, riper the better (this time of year they are great); slice them in half and pull out the seeds. Put tomatoes skin side up on a cookie tray, coat generously with olive oil and minced garlic. Bake at 200° F. for 6 hours. Pull off the skins and cool. We have normally served these with grilled Italian bread. Guests love it.

Try coating the dough with olive oil and minced garlic, spread cheese mixture (I like Mozzarella/Provolone 75%/25%), not too much cheese. Crush some of the plum tomatoes in your hand to top off the pizza. Bake to crisp crust. Everyone loves it. Dan

Hi Dan, I did try it with some fresh Romas from the garden and it was indeed delicious! I also made one with olive oil and garlic as you suggested, then fresh Roma tomatoes covering the dough instead of sauce, topped it with cheese and it was delicious too. Bev

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Bev, I know I haven't sent a message in a long while. I just wanted you to know that we have pizza every Sunday night. I usually make the dough in the bread machine on Friday. I set a timer for 20 minutes and then take it out just before the machine heats up. (While the bread machine is kneading the dough, I make my pizza sauce). When the dough is ready, I put a little olive oil in a quart size plastic zip lock, and refrigerate the dough until Sunday afternoon. At that time, I roll it out onto two 16-inch screens, cover with saran, refrigerate it again, and then go to see my grandson. At night my husband assembles the pizza and bakes it on the screens, on a pizza stone (Villa Ware # 518) in our outdoor grill. The results are superb, and we are still amazed at the professional look, and thin crust. I love having the pizza ready for me when I get home!

Thank you again. Making perfect pizza is such an accomplishment. Tomasina. P.S. I forgot to tell you that we baked our pies on our gas grill outside and use Jack Daniels oak barrel wood chips to create a brick oven effect.

Tomasina, thanks for sharing. Bev

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Bev …We have a couple of restaurant supply stores nearby. I got ALL of the equipment. My wife is ready to throw me out the window! I’ll just blame you! Mike-Jersey City

Mike – You can blame me! I am too far away for slings and arrows in the hinterlands. I’m sure she’ll forgive you when the pizza comes out of the oven. A little sleuthing pays off in saved shipping charges. Bev
Bev … Last Wednesday I had a slice for lunch at one of our better pizza places in downtown Jersey City. The pizza I made at home was far superior … and my wife agrees with me. I will never order a pizza to be delivered to my house again, unless it is an absolute necessity. Last night I made a pizza with (you ready for this?) chicken and roasted garlic for a topping. I put a “shmear” of sauce and not too much cheese (just enough) and put the chicken and garlic on top of that. It was wonderful! Years ago we traveled to France and were served a pizza like this for an appetizer. Try it … you’ll like it. Mike

Mike – Your words are music to my ears! A compliment from Jersey is indeed a compliment! I tried your combination and it was delicious – with your help I finally figured out what to do with my roasted garlic.

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Bev -
I have been making pizzas using your methods for some time now, and have had great success. Everyone says they are the best. I have a question however. Please tell me the difference between bleached vs. un-bleached flour. I have a source for bleached high gluten flour, Can I use it? Will I have the same success as with un-bleached flour? Thank You. Bob

Hi Bob – thanks for writing and for the good news that the pizzas are going great!

I’ve always felt I got better results when using bleached flour, but after you asked the question, and I thought more about it, I believe it is more likely because the flour also had a maturing agent added (like Vit. C/ascorbic acid or bromate, or some of each). The crust seemed more airy, bouncy, and crisp. I have used unbleached flour and thought my results were very good, however. I’ve never tested the two side by side – that is, equal flours except for the bleaching difference. I did a little checking on flour specifications I could find on line and so far can’t find a flour where I could compare apples to apples. It appears that if a flour is unbleached, the maturing agent is not added. You have a really good question and I wish I knew the answer now – I’ll keep on eye out for a source that has equal flours with the only difference being bleached or unbleached.

Unbleached flour is darker (more yellow) in color, which doesn’t matter with pizza anyway. Unbleached flour will naturally become whiter as the flour ages – which requires space and time by the manufacturer. I think some unbleached flour gets shipped too soon, before it has matured and baking results are not consistent. Some people feel strongly about using chemicals in food so prefer unbleached. Supposedly there is no chemical left in the flour after whitening it.

But a different thought here: If you had unbleached flour you could add some Vitamin C to it – I’ve done it many times with breads, especially whole wheat, to strengthen the gluten structure.

Crush ascorbic acid tablet or use powdered capsule (Vit. C from the drugstore). Make mix as follows:

100 mg. tablet with 8 teaspoons flour - use 1 teaspoon of mixture per cup of un-bromated flour in recipe.

500 mg. tablet with 10 teaspoons flour - use 1/4 teaspoon per cup of un-bromated flour in recipe.

But it sounds like you have a source for the bleached. Have you been using unbleached? King Arthur Sir Lancelot?
If you buy the bleached flour I would like your opinion on the differences between the pizzas. I’ve had a few people write me to say they started with King Arthur, then bought the bulk bag – bleached, bromated – and liked it better. What brand are you looking at? And is it bromated or with ascorbic acid added?
Bev